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Post by northbessemer on Feb 22, 2018 14:40:25 GMT -5
B40's are unusual and relatively rare (although common in Conrail days)
Now is the time to get audio recordings of 5-unit 645's working up past Hall.
The B40's will also be "musical" (chugchugchug) but different, obviously. Worth recording.
If the B40's are adopted (which is iffy) don't expect their tenure to be long. GE's aren't known for longevity.
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Post by bessemerbob on Feb 23, 2018 9:22:17 GMT -5
GE longevity?
The B40-8s are already 30 years old.
Time to start viewing GE differently. The Dash-7 models were a bird of a different feather, during that period EMD was still king but that all changed with the Dash -8 line. It was an even playing field for a while until the mid 1990s when GE started taking over the loco market.
Why are we seeing all the Dash-8s finding new homes?
Majority of the Dash-8s were GE owned on 30yr leases, others came to the warranty end. This with a major decline in the new locomotive market has forced GE Transportation to rethink the used locomotive market. The Dash-8s are being pushed to many regional and short lines. Also CN is currently adding a lot of C40-8s to ore service on the ex DMIR. G&W just purchased 4 C40-8s for the P&W, Pan Am has a bunch now running around in New England. Do not be surprised if you find more Dash-8 variants on regional and short line railroads in 2018.
If the URR goes the GE route they will likely be here for a while. But a lot has to happen before that becomes the case. These units are here on a test basis, and it didnt start well with the condition of the locos when they showed up.
With all of that said, nobody can question the reliability of 2nd generation EMD products. the MPs and SWs, SD40-2, GP38-2 have been some of the most reliable locomotives ever made. With that said reliability vs efficiency is a different debate.
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Post by northbessemer on Feb 23, 2018 10:41:02 GMT -5
At least one of the B40-8's had been downgraded to a 2000HP B20-8 rrpicturearchives.net/LocoPicture.aspx?id=168435Makes more sense for the URR, where high speed is nonexistent and wheelslip with heavy loads would be an issue. High-HP would be useless. Guess with the tight curves and no good new 4-axle units being produced, they have to scrounge. Bet old B40's are cheaper than used MP15's too. |
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Post by bessemerbob on Feb 23, 2018 13:03:11 GMT -5
Replacement cost is not really a factor right now. The URR currently has an adequate locomotive roster. With the introduction of #34 (ex13) to the roster they have not been in a pinch for power. Also if they were to buy lets say two used MPs for some reason it would be much cheaper then 6 to 8 B40-8s
This is a test to try to reduce the number of total engines on the property, to reduce the number of engines needed for 50 and 66 crew, to reduce the service time needed(MPs have small fuel tanks!) and finally to potentially reduce the number of crew starts for 66 crew (longer coke trains = less coke trains)
Again this is only a test that could lead to a possible long term lease.
In the office, at the corporate level, and on Wall St people do not see GE or EMD they just see how much its costing USS to operate the URR
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Post by northbessemer on Feb 24, 2018 1:42:33 GMT -5
Saw two of the B40's drifting past Hall this afternoon. CSX dark blue with yellow/gold ends. Couldn't make out the number (driving over the rt 22 bridge). Units were running b-end first with a guy riding the steps. Visibilty sure won't be as good as the MP15's.
Is there a reference for URR train numbers and where they work? (50, 66, etc) I'm not familiar with them.
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Post by northbessemer on Feb 24, 2018 17:22:13 GMT -5
Looks like the 3rd B40 is parked way in the back at Hall (as viewed from rt 22 bridge)
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Post by URR566 on Feb 24, 2018 22:23:24 GMT -5
50 Crew (4 units) is the ore from Bessemer to ET, empties back north. Coal north when they run coal (5 units with coal).
66 Crew coke from Clairton to ET (Dexter) return with empties (5 units, sometimes 4 if they kill one or traffics down).
20 Crew works Irvin but occasionally goes to Munhall with coils (two units).
9 Crew works the Hump, goes to ET, Irvin, Mifflin. Will do miscellaneous work as well (3 units, for years they had two).
76 Crew slabs from ET to Irvin return with empties (3 units).
All jobs except 50 and 66 Crews now use remote, even on the mainline. Those are your basic road jobs on the system. There are other jobs such as 2, 4, 8 crews but they work in Clairton and ET. They dont leave the mills.
Once a month and as needed the Hostler runs from Hall to swap power back and forth.
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Post by URR566 on Feb 24, 2018 22:51:16 GMT -5
The only disadvantages I see the MP15's having vs the B40's are parts availability. I was told a couple years ago by a friend that parts can be hard to find which blew my mind but I guess it makes sense. The MP15's use a 12-645, those aren't nearly as common as 16-645's, plus the MP15's use a DC generator. Modern engines use an alternator which produces AC, then the AC is rectified to DC before going to the traction motors. I saw the Belt Railway of Chicago rebuild their MP15DC's into MP15AC's at Juniata a couple years ago, maybe that has to do with what I talked about above? I don't know.
The B40's are sure to be cheaper than buying used MP15's. In January 2016 Union Pacific had a large auction of used engines, all C40-8's and MP15DC's. The C40's were as cheap as $18,000, while an MP15DC was $125,000 WITH A CUT BLOCK!!!! I have the screenshots somewhere to prove this.
If parts are hard to find, I can see GE doing a parts and service deal with the Union, similar to Pan-Am Railways deal with GE. Problem is, even if they offer parts and service they still have to test well and I just don't see that happening. The GE's have a much higher horsepower, and while they can be backed off to 2000 horsepower, the tractive effort of a B40 isn't that much greater than a URR MP15. If they do try to run a pair on 50 Crew I just don't see them moving the train cause they are trying too hard to save a dollar on unit reductions. I can see maybe 3 of them running that job but not two. I'd be fine with seeing them succeed and run the mainline, I like Dash 8's. Though that will probably spell the end of the SW1500's career on the U.
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Post by bessemerbob on Feb 26, 2018 10:29:51 GMT -5
It all about when you buy. since 2016 used locomotive prices have been falling off steadily.
We recently picked up Sd40-2s for 45k and a few MP15ACs for 75k. Key is to work a deal before the auctions..
Prices on 2nd generation power will continue to drop in 2018, We are looking at AC power that is falling in price over 5k a month.... Just have to wait till it hits the right price. CSXT dumping off a lot of SD70MACs soon will really drop the price on those, but I see NS picking up most of them.
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Post by bessemerbob on Mar 7, 2018 21:15:47 GMT -5
Repairs are almost done of the B40-8s.
Probably getting a test run this week before actually testing on 50 crew
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Post by bessemerbob on Mar 13, 2018 11:24:31 GMT -5
Morning of March 13th saw a trio of B40-8s take an ore train from North Bessemer to Duquesne.
The empty train test was on March 15th.
It took 3 units to get the train down, and 2 units to get it back.
50 crew testing is done. They even tried it with the 3rd unit as a helper for demonstration potential of DPU. Still not quite what they are after.
So far the units are working well, not quite as well as GE thought. The big test will be on 66 crew if 3 units can get the job done the GE's will see further testing. Possibly running on 66 this week.
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Post by Ex Brakie on Mar 31, 2018 23:52:27 GMT -5
Heard that the GEs burn twice the fuel in a shift that a consist of MP15s do.
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Post by bessemerbob on Apr 1, 2018 8:22:04 GMT -5
I checked into that, not exactly the case. The three units on 50 crew used just slightly more fuel per unit then the MPs. So with one less unit technically they used less fuel overall.
Again the GEs in all performed well in ore service but the improvements over the MPs were so negligible it is not worth a change. The big loss was on 66 crew, GE offered to in service the 4th B40-8 to test but that is not enough of a savings to bother.
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Post by bessemerbob on Apr 1, 2018 8:25:14 GMT -5
I think in all it was a interesting test, neat to see some GE power working on the URR. At the end of the day the B40-8s just didnt show enough of an improvement over the MPs and there is nothing wrong with that. So we should get back out there and document, video, photo the MPs. They made it through this round, but no doubt in a year or two something is going to show up for testing. Time will tell, but eventually the MPs will be a memory like the power that came before. Is that day 2 years from now or 20 years...... Well who knows, will ET still be around 20yrs from now? A bigger question!
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Post by northbessemer on Apr 1, 2018 13:56:40 GMT -5
How much time left to catch the B40's before they are gone?
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